You may remember, back in January, the post Widow Thurley of Loughton, and the family of my 3xgreat grandmother Rebecca Thurley. In that post I noted BMD Marriage Index Mar1938 Leighton Buzzard 6 105 for Rebecca Herbert and one John Thoroly and the possibility that "Thoroly" was a mistranscription of Thurley. I imagine that civil registration was a driving force for increased standardization of surname spellings. But this was early days. Civil registration of births, marriages and deaths began in July 1837, making this marriage certificate among the first to be filed. The certificate has duly arrived, and below is the transcript for the marriage solemnized 29 January 1838 at the parish church at Stoke Hammond:
John Thoroly Full age Bachelor Labourer Stoke Hamond
Richard Thoroly Labourer
Rebecca Herbert Full age Spinster Staw Platter Stoke Hamond
Edward Herbert Tailor
Neither the bride nor groom were literate. On the certificate they are each reported to have signed their mark. So I can imagine that, when asked his name, our John went on to pronounce it very carefully, "Thu-re-ly", and it was written as on the certificate. And he would not have been able to tell the priest that he was wrong. Given that John was married in Buckinghamshire, the parish priest would not have had guidance from John's Essex-based family, who were likely not in attendance. Thoroly is almost certainly incorrect; there is no other Thoroly recorded among the BMD data. It could be a mis-spelling of Thorley, but I don't find any census record of a John Thorely/Rebecca combination. And yes, the above show the spellings of "Stoke Hammond" and "Straw Plaiter" as they appear on the certificate.
Birth certificates have a record of mother's maiden name, a useful tool for genealogists. Among a recently received batch of BMD certificates is the birth certificate for my 2x great grandmother Hannah Thurley confirming her mother's maiden name as Herbert, as transcribed below, registered 18 February 1852 (BMD Birth Index Mar1852 Epping 4a 39):
Twenty ninth X the mark of
January John Rebecca Rebecca
1852 Hannah Girl Thurley Labourer Thurley
Sheeres Thurley formerly Mother
Cottages Herbert Sheeres Cottages
Loughton Loughton
This also links with the Herbert/Thoroly marriage certificate. The 1851 England Census at York Hill Hole, Loughton records Hannah's family of origin, including parents John and Rebecca Thurley. Rebecca's place of birth, here and on later census returns, is given as Swanbourne, Buckinghamshire, which is only about six miles from Stoke Hammond.
To research generations before this, we become reliant on parish records. Ancestry.com has few parish records outside London, but the familysearch.org site, maintained by the Latter Day Saints, has the following for Rebecca Herbert:
England Baptisms and Christenings 1538-1975
Rebecca Herbert Christening 30 May 1816 Swanbourne, Buckinghamshre father: Ed.
I was then able to search for presumed siblings, that is, other Herberts sharing the same father's name, baptized in the same parish. This, and the spacing of their baptisms leads me to believe that these are the children of one family. Here they are:
Mary Christening 14 January 1810
Hannah 10 August 1812 and Birth 28 Dec 1811
John 15 November 1813
William 30 October 1817
Jeffrey 2 January 1820
Thomas 19 July 1824
Also of interest is an entry from the parish register in Stoke Hammond.
Elizabeth 7 June 1829 father Edward and mother Susannah
From Pallott's Marriage Index (which I found on ancestry.com) we have:
Edwd Herbert and Susanna Arnold Swanbourne 1807
Which corresponds to England, Marriages 1538-1975 (from familysearch.org of the LDS):
Edward Herbert and Susanna Arnold 19 October 1807
An Edward Herbert, Tailor, 55, and his wife Susanna are in the 1841 England Census living at East Side in Stoke Hammond. And Edward Herbert, widower age 65, tailor, born in Stoke [Hammond] and living at 39 The Newton Road in that parish in the 1851 England Census, next to a couple William and Mary Herbert, the former an Agricultural Labourer born about 1819, and likely his son and daughter-in-law.
I would guess that Susanna Arnold was from Swanbourne, hence she and Edward Herbert were married there. Likely they lived there for a while, or at least had their children baptized at the parish church. Later they would move to Stoke Hammond, presumably by 1829.
We can tell why standardized civil registration is so much more useful than the idiosyncratic parish registers, which do not always give the mother's name, and might even abbreviate the father's. Also by 1841, we can cross reference the civil index with census returns. From here on in this post the data are consistent but (even more) speculative as I look for the origins of Edward Herbert, tailor and his wife Susanna (presumably) Arnold.
The Swanbourne parish register (familysearch.org England, Births and Christenings 1538-1975) has:
Susannah, Christening 3 August 1783 daughter of Richd Arnold.
And a long list of baptisms of other children of Richd Arnold, maybe my 5xgreat grandfather:
Mary 10 February 1771
John 8 March 1772
William 10 July 1773
(and I think a duplicate William transcribed as 18 July 1773)
Edward 4 August 1774
William 10 November 1776
(reusing the name of a deceased infant, or two Richd Arnolds?)
Rebecca 4 October 1778
Ann 21 February 1781
Hannah 1 January 1786
Hester 14 October 1787
Peter 15 August 1790
Elizabeth 20 January 1790
And in nearby Cublington, Buckinghamshire, the following two children of Richard Arnold and Elizabeth, possibly a second wife:
Thomas 1796
Sarah 1800
So much for the Arnold side, here are some baptisms on the Herbert side in Stoke Hammond. First, the children of Edward Herbert and Christian (maybe my 5xgreat grandparents):
William 5 June 1775
Ann 24 July 1776
Edward 18 April 1785
(might this be Edward Herbert, Tailor, my 4xgreat grandfather?)
Mary 25 April 1787
Elizabeth 26 March 1790
And second, children of Edward Herbert and Elizabeth, possibly a second wife:
Martha 11 March 1798
Mary 14 September 1806
In conclusion, I want reiterate how speculative this research becomes once we begin to rely on parish registers. We are likely to find the same with each family line as we move further through the generations, and I'm not sure how much further I want to build speculation on speculation. I'll leave this family line here, for now.
No comments:
Post a Comment